2005 Dodge RAM 5.9L Cummins - Injector Issue?

[Smoked]

What started to be a simple injector install has turned into a nightmare.

I installed a FASS with a Sump the day before the injector worked, and there were no issues.

The truck ran fine, so I went and topped off the tank and put it in the shop for the injectors the next day.

On day 2, I started the injector replacement and removed the valve cover to make it easier to work on.

I removed the fuel and fuel rail body and cleaned everything with air and brake cleaner.

I started removing the rockers, both intake and exhaust.

When taking off the #6 rocker assembly (the last one), I heard a "tick" sound and"something hitting the concrete floor.

I was WTF heck and noticed the cup to the exhaust rocker at my feet.

The plastic body had broken off; it was no big deal.

I have read many instances of these things happening.

Finish the injector installation, new feed tubes, and torque everything back to spec.

I take a lot of time with this process to get things right.

I start putting the rocker arms back on and notice the number 6 exhaust rocker arm is way loose after torquing it down, to the point that I can remove the cup and the bridge.

I repositioned those items and figured I would address it when I got to do the valve lash.

Finish getting the rest of the rockers in place and moved on.

What happens next is what I call the Swiss cheese model.

I rotated the engine a few turns with a barring tool to start the lash.

The #6 rocker is nice and snug on the bridge) and got pulled away from the truck to do some other things.

The family needed some stuff done that required my time and attention.

A few hours later, my mind was not on the truck.

I returned to it thinking the lash was good before all this; I put everything back in the correct order.

I'm not concerned with the lash; I need to get this thing running to check it off the box before I leave for work in the morning.

DON'T EVER DO THIS!

I went to fire the truck up, and it sounded like total metal pinging, rough knocking, etc.

Shut it off within 5 seconds and was l like damn it.

I called a buddy and told him what was going on.

He said they sound like crap after all that you have done, start it and let it run some more and see if it sorts itself out.

Start number 2 was just as bad, if not worse.

I shut it off within a few seconds because, DAMN.

Start #3 battery craps out, and I smell an electrical burning smell, very minor, but it's there.

So now I am in total WTF mode.

I knew it needed batteries sooner rather than later.

I got two new AGM batteries, and the truck will not even start.

It turns over with a loping sound during the starting sequence but will not fire.

Initially, I was not even sure WTF was going on, hindsight now tells me, I am a complete idiot, got rushed, and should have addressed the #6 rocker bridge.

The FASS system runs but makes an extraordinary noise (I get fuel to the rail).

I think the final crank and the battery cratering might have fried the relay on the fuel pump, but it is easy to check and fix (why it will not fire, and I am glad it didn't.

Now, the BIG question I am wondering is how badly I cratered this engine.

I stepped away after several no-starts late in the evening and was like screw it; I will look at it when I get home on Monday (this all happened late Friday night).

I'm sitting here at work wondering what that loose bridge and cup coming off of that arm could have done to the internals.

I am seeking some guidance from you fine folks here on how to look into all of this.

I know, I know, valve lash, valve lash, valve lash.

I am wondering about the case scenario versus the best case.

I know the engine turns over freely by cranking and barring tools.

The FASS thing is pretty simple.

I have an extra one; it is easy to swap if it comes down to it.

The rocker bridge, though.

Damn, I wish I would have been focused.

End of the day, DO NOT BE ME.

Take your time, put your head in the game, and learn from your mistakes.

When I get home tomorrow morning, I will pull the valve cover, see my fate, and keep you posted.

Sorry for the long rant; I hope SOMEONE learns from my lack of attention to detail.

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[watersupply189]

Damn I sure hope it’s nothing serious.

Definitely following!


2016 Ram Laramie 3500, G56, 6.7, CC, 4x4

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[AK Bob]

It sounds like you have several things going on.

I agree to start with the valve bridge issue on #6 and check all the valve lash adjustments.

The #6 valve, I hope, isn’t the cause of your crank not starting issue.

Hopefully, it’s the FASS not supplying enough fuel to your high-pressure pump.

I have attached some information on no-start troubleshooting that may be helpful.

I hope all goes well tomorrow, and it’s a simple fix.

Please keep us posted.

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[sootmaster]

Hello, before anything, DO NOT RUN it!

Engine noise is a tall tale of something hitting!

Retrace your steps for the removal of VC-Injector wiring and spacing.

With removal, do a Valve rocker one at a time, looking for fresh marks, a spacer, and a valve cover for hitting marks.

Continue removing ALL injectors so you can rotate the engine by HAND while watching your push rods go up and down to see if a push rod is seated into the lifter correctly.

Also, note or see if any fluid is coming from the injector port.

Now while apart use straight edge lay over your tips on intake and exhaust from 1CYL to 2CYL so forth to see if tips if ANY are lower for stuck open valve, pay close attention see if ANY Broken Valve Springs and to your #6 area.

If you can access an air compressor, apply air into the injector hole and have someone listen to the exhaust as you can lister with the intake ram off the plenum.

With the valve train off, with Air Applied you should NOT hear anything out there areas.

ENGINE noise will not go away, run rough maybe but NEVER heavy knock or rattle.

When You Have a Engine Noise, it's always good to RECHECK recent work FIRST.

Do not ever restart, thinking it will pass.

If testing shows ok at this point, assemble only the #6 rocker and perform lash for this six cyl, only paying attention to the movement of the push rod and rocker, seeing it move evenly up-down and keeping lash adjustment.

On the uneven cranking is mechanical compression LOSS without any fuel starting, normal will crank is even while spinning. Valve lash to tight or bent push rod or broken valve spring or hanging valve rocker can cause unseating valve while cranking. If hung open then valve can hit piston causing knocking.
for homme made compression test put one injector in at a time and crank by hand felling if same pressure tightness is felt? Being cautious before you use starter is to see if repairable with minor interference by mistake or something out of place.

Starter Cranking is the last thing in this process, as what is causing the KNOCK or noise you describe.

Remove and rotate by hand, I suggest remove front fan and drive belt to have area to do all testing if your alone.

I hope this helps.

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[Smoked]

Hello, before anything, DO NOT RUN it!

Engine noise is a tall tale of something hitting!

Retrace your steps for the removal of VC-Injector wiring and spacing.

With removal, do a Valve rocker one at a time, looking for fresh marks, a spacer, and a valve cover for hitting marks.

Continue removing ALL injectors so you can rotate the engine by HAND while watching your push rods go up and down to see if a push rod is seated into the lifter correctly.

Also, note or see if any fluid is coming from the injector port.

Now while apart use straight edge lay over your tips on intake and exhaust from 1CYL to 2CYL so forth to see if tips if ANY are lower for stuck open valve, pay close attention see if ANY Broken Valve Springs and to your #6 area.

If you can access an air compressor, apply air into the injector hole and have someone listen to the exhaust as you can lister with the intake ram off the plenum.

With the valve train off, with Air Applied you should NOT hear anything out there areas.

ENGINE noise will not go away, run rough maybe but NEVER heavy knock or rattle.

When You Have a Engine Noise, it's always good to RECHECK recent work FIRST.

Do not ever restart, thinking it will pass.

If testing shows ok at this point, assemble only the #6 rocker and perform lash for this six cyl, only paying attention to the movement of the push rod and rocker, seeing it move evenly up-down and keeping lash adjustment.

On the uneven cranking is mechanical compression LOSS without any fuel starting, normal will crank is even while spinning. Valve lash to tight or bent push rod or broken valve spring or hanging valve rocker can cause unseating valve while cranking. If hung open then valve can hit piston causing knocking.
for homme made compression test put one injector in at a time and crank by hand felling if same pressure tightness is felt? Being cautious before you use starter is to see if repairable with minor interference by mistake or something out of place.

Starter Cranking is the last thing in this process, as what is causing the KNOCK or noise you describe.

Remove and rotate by hand, I suggest remove front fan and drive belt to have area to do all testing if your alone.

I hope this helps.

Outstanding write up and I appreciate the time you spent on it..

when I opened up the valve cover I found #5 and 6 had lost their cups and dislodged their bridges on the exhaust side. I was able to find all of the parts still on the top side of the engine after I pulled every rocker arm. didnt notice any cracks, broken parts, etc.. Push rods are all straight. I did not pull the injectors and the mark 1 eyeball test looked like all the springs are even, etc... I would need to pull the injectors to straight edge the springs.

Did the valve lash and they were all out of wack. set the valve lash etc..

question... do I need new injector tubes if I remove the injectors? I have read anytime you remove them, you want new feed tubes, or keep them oriented to the proper injector be ok, at least for this situation

I have no problem pulling the injectors and retracing the steps you listed, just wondering about the feed tubes..

Thanks again for the outstanding information..

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[sootmaster]

You can reuse the tube BUT Be very clean!!!! Did i mention Clean? Clean,, only reason is to rotate for any other problems. Also can rotate to do the valve lash easy unlike bumping the engine over. MY Way of hand rotation is to make sure the valve move correctly, I feel you had a few push rod NOT in the lifter reason the lash is way off and the rocker tips fell off. Try not to go the easy rout. Your At this point, for me I would take the time to remove injectors so can hand rotate and feel and watch rockers. When your doing lash on a solid cam or Roller Take your time check check check and torque the jam nuts then your guess it RECHECK when you feeling ok then reassemble, Removal of the Front clutch fan and fan shroud will give you able to stand in front of engine or rotate easier.
At this point using the starter is BAD Idea due to Unknown what else happened? Putting one injector in a time can show if any valves hit piston when you turn by hand will feel NO resistance when turning. Just how in depth you like and feel comfortable going back together??? Is up to you.
Glad you retraced and now seeing how it could have been way worse is stay running. chewing up parts. Just recheck your lash few times, If your NEW to lash Make sure your not on the lobe lift!! watch up then down and turn little more then check BUT recheck!! You Tube has Great Lash Vids to Show correlation and Lobe design and what your watching for.
I Also Thank my other Fellow Friends here that have helped so Many others!

On a side NOTE visual inspect for any damage to push rod tips! also rocket cups so forth. Inspection

Unsure if you may Know Valve lash is checked on the BASE CIRCLE not when the lobe starts the ramp to lift the lifter aka valve off seat!! Make sure watch up the down and go more so base circle is where you at then Check lash. Images of cam can lead you what i referring to. JUST recheck

I do Know you have to remove rockers to remove the injector, but if using a torque wrench I set lash and rotate rechecking lash then remove rocker On BASE CIRCLE and reinstall injector then retorque the rocker arm and recheck lash to see if it changed. I find it easier to do all valve lash adjustments then put one injector at time in and recheck lash and bump to next, I have found even I miss up and can find fault before restarting. IT's longer way but if your new or first time doing these steps can help you not destroy your engine.

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[Smoked]

Thank you for the time and outstanding information; this gives me a solid starting point.

I will check 5 and 6 with the injectors off.

I had not read this post yet, so I had a buddy rotate the engine with a barring tool while I paid close attention to the rockers. I didn't notice any strange skips or hangups.

Rotating with the barring tool and flywheel, I didn't notice any mechanical resistance or binding.

I have not fired it yet, so I will move on to pulling the injectors next and looking at them again, compressed air check, and report back.

Also, the rods all seem straight with no damage to the ends, no signs of damage to the valve box, etc.

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[Smoked]

Spent most of the day on this yesterday afternoon, double checked everything. Seemed like it all checked out.

Fired the engine and it purred... I mean the truck sounded better than what it did before. watching the rockers etc.. nothing sounded off, or out of place, and zero "ticks" mechanical sounds, knocks, etc.. Buttoned everything up and let it idle for a good 5-10 minutes while I watched for leaks etc... zero signs of problems..

drove bout 5 miles with light RPM, still good, no smoke, nothing... Pulled over at a gas station and looked under the truck, all seemed good..

got up to about 60 and felt a slight hiccup or lope, some light grey smoke, still no "clanks, metal sounds, etc... slowed down and did a u-turn to head back to the house...

Truck started acting like it was hanging on the rpm again, black smoke puffing, imediately pulled over and shut it down...


Not sure what the cause was, but I had it towed to a local shop...

My fear is that a injector let go, melted the piston, washed it, etc...

should know in a few days...

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[sootmaster]

My thinking easy driving just an injector sticking from bad unit or some dirt found its way from all the work. but at least on the right track all noise is gone now just injector but repeat your procedure on lash when you find out which one is leaking. with Black smoke now if fueling concern.
let us know who's injectors you chose and installed at the beginning of your upgrades. We ALL here have had these day's and know how frustrating it can be!!

I Hoped your Correctly TORQUED the Feed tubes to Injector? Also look for Oil Level to rise from while driving for a period of time.

Have OLD Injectors? Can reinstall one at time till find the one causing smoke.

DO NOT RUN a Rail Pressure relief check Valve PLUG! Huge Mistake and can cause injector and line failures and leaks

Not Sure if your running a Foss filter Bypass? But just sounds like a Failed injector or trash. NO engine nise is a Plus!

I personally run a Modified relief that is one stage and reset Automatically Without having to return to low pressure for valve to reset like OEM stock valve. Also is tested to correct PSI/Bar level not shimmed and Hope!

Your getting to know your Truck And Hope will see the benefits when your done in your goal for additional HP You will have it running like a clock soon, Don't give up! Small set backs are like being an intern learning and hands on.

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[Smoked]

My thinking easy driving just an injector sticking from bad unit or some dirt found its way from all the work. but at least on the right track all noise is gone now just injector but repeat your procedure on lash when you find out which one is leaking. with Black smoke now if fueling concern.
let us know who's injectors you chose and installed at the beginning of your upgrades. We ALL here have had these day's and know how frustrating it can be!!

I Hoped your Correctly TORQUED the Feed tubes to Injector? Also look for Oil Level to rise from while driving for a period of time.

Have OLD Injectors? Can reinstall one at time till find the one causing smoke.

DO NOT RUN a Rail Pressure relief check Valve PLUG! Huge Mistake and can cause injector and line failures and leaks

Not Sure if your running a Foss filter Bypass? But just sounds like a Failed injector or trash. NO engine nise is a Plus!

I personally run a Modified relief that is one stage and reset Automatically Without having to return to low pressure for valve to reset like OEM stock valve. Also is tested to correct PSI/Bar level not shimmed and Hope!

Your getting to know your Truck And Hope will see the benefits when your done in your goal for additional HP You will have it running like a clock soon, Don't give up! Small set backs are like being an intern learning and hands on.

Thank you sir for all of your help, wisdom, and great advice!

am running the bypass from the factory system. One of the items that I upgraded on this Truck was the battery cables. The originals were trashed, it made life easy to install the positive on the alternator with the factory filter system out of the way...

puzzling, I am guessing it is a clogged injector that stuck open and I am praying that I didn't melt the piston or wash the cylinder too badly. I had it towed to a reputable shop. Not that I want to give up on this truck, I just need it reliable and running for my mom and at this point I want someone else to look at it. She needs it for her daily usage, etc...

little back story is that I got the Truck for a pretty sweet deal knowing it had injectors that needed changing. It would hang on the RPM, skip, etc. when decelerating. Before this madness started that was completely gone and I was SOOOOO relieved on how well the Truck was running and sounding.. My father passed away over Christmas from a head bleed and his truck was to much for her to pay for on her limited income. I live next to my folks on the family land and moved out here ot take care of him. My dad had PTSD from his service days and needed the extra care when Alzheimer's kicked in...

this was a truck that I paid cash for, to give to her, so she would have something to drive. She loves Trucks and it's easy for her to get in and out of them, now I am just rambling, but you all can understand why I am letting someone else have a fresh go at getting this thing taken care of. Praying that it is something cheap and I am not buying a new motor...

note... I used BD Injectors that were 5% over... Nothing to crazy... I paid close attention to the torque sequence and specs when I installed them and I thought I was as clean as possible during the process, guess not..

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